Lights, Camera, Read! Josh Mendoza Talks Books and Films

Hello and welcome to the Thriller Zone.

I'm your host, David Temple.

On today's show, Josh Mendoza has a book called Shadow of the Eternal Watcher.

Folks, let me tell you something.

Great title, good book cover.

You're halfway there.

It happens to be a thrilling read.

Josh is a debut author.

We don't do this often, but I ran across Josh through some PR folks, and because he's an indie filmmaker, I said, we gotta talk.

So without any further ado, let's get into the Thriller Zone with debut author and indie filmmaker Josh Mendoza.

Well, thanks for having me, Dave.

Excited to be here, dude.

I have been talking to your PR people for.

Let me see, this is May.

I think we started.

I could look it up.

I bet it was March, February.

March.

They started talking to me.

This book dropped.

I want to re.

I want to say January.

February.

Ish.

Yeah, it was like January 28th.

It dropped.

Yeah.

Okay.

So while you might think, geez, Dave, you're late to the party, that's not actually the case.

We had a couple of heavy hitters ahead of you.

James Patterson.

Not to drop names.

And I guess I'll let James go first.

That's fine.

But here's the reason I snagged you.

And we.

We have been tapping the brakes on debut authors because.

A hundred different reasons, but I take one every once in a while, and you're one of those.

And what got me.

What.

What caught my eye was the fact that you're an indie filmmaker.

And we're going to find out here, for those who have not noticed before, I'm also a indie filmmaker.

So when I saw this, I'm like, oh, I got to talk to this guy.

So.

I'm so glad you carved out the time.

Well, I appreciate you being here.

That's my.

That's my journey to get here too.

So be.

It'll be fun to talk about it.

Well, folks, the book is Shadow of the Eternal Watcher.

Now, I'm going to stop right there.

Say, A, cover.

C, smashing.

B, love the title.

So just let that bask in that for a second.

It's exciting to have it out there.

You know, the book.

The nice thing about book versus movies.

The book, something tactile.

You know, movies so much have gone to streaming now.

There's still DVDs, but less.

Less and less every year that goes by.

So it's.

It's fun that, like, you held it up and showed it to everyone.

That's, I think, one of the coolest things about a book.

Yeah, it exists.

It's a thing.

It is.

You know what?

I remember my very first book, which was maybe 2003, and I remember getting it in the mail and opening that box going, there is nothing in the wide world of sports like it.

When you open it up and you go, it's on paper, right?

It's got ink.

It's that artwork that I slaved over or had hired somebody to do.

It's.

It's all frickin real.

Yeah.

For folks who want to know, well, Dave, you said he's an indie filmmaker.

What's the film he did?

What Still Remains now, if I'm correct, I watched it last night.

2018, right?

Yeah, it came out 2018.

So it's been a few years now.

And yeah, you know, I went to USC film school, got out, had a bunch of scripts I was pitching around and, you know, ran into a lot of obstacles because movies are expensive.

So I actually started working on what Still Remains is something.

I had some backers that wanted to back a movie, but just not in the budget range we were looking for and tried to create something that we could fit into that sub million dollar area, which is a lot of money, but not a lot of money when you make a movie.

So we were able to punch above our weight class with that movie though, with a lot of USC talent coming on, working with us and just bringing something to life that was on the page.

And that's the cool thing about movie.

A book, you obviously have editors and you get a lot of input, but you know, movie, you can't do it by yourself.

There's no wait.

And you just have to know enough about everything to tell people what you want them to do and then hopefully they're better at it than you and they go do it for you.

And Westover Mans is a perfect example of that.

I have great cinematography, great production design just all around and great talent, great actors bringing it all to life.

So it was a great experience and I'm working on getting number two made.

All right, well, here's why I'm torn, Josh.

I need you to help me decide what to do.

I am so friggin torn because I want to give Shadow its due, but I really want to geek out on Book to Screen because that's really what I'm going to name this title of this show.

It's.

It's kind of my heartbeat, how I live and I breathe.

I dream of every book that I write.

I want to see it on the screen.

So tell me, would you like to go ahead and deep Dive on shadow first and then us geek out on the film.

Or vice versa.

What's, what's.

Let's geek out on film.

That's good.

We can talk about the movie at the book at the end.

Yeah, but.

All right, you brought up a.

You brought up a really good point for folk.

And I want to treat this like a little master class because I have a lot of friends, a lot of listeners from all over the world who listen to the show, and they're first and foremost thriller fans.

Secondly, most of them, a lot of them are authors, up and coming authors, debut authors, seasoned authors, wannabe authors, and then there's a little tiny third group that wannabe filmmakers or they wanna see those books adapted to screen.

So you made a point, Dave.

It's hard to do that.

I agree.

And if I may borrow a little bit of my story, very first book I wrote, 2003, I think it was, I really wanted to do a film.

I'm like, God darn it, I got enough film friends, enough tech friends to make this happen.

What's the missing piece?

Everyone sitting around the table goes, well, we need some money.

Yeah, no shit, Sherlock.

So how do we get money?

Somebody's got to go raise it.

Yeah.

So I started banging on doors.

I raised the money.

I wrote the book already, so I adapted it to screenplay, raised the money, hired the crew, shot it, directed it, helped the edit, starred in it, and got it on Netflix.

And then it's now on Amazon Prime.

So.

But let me tell you something.

As you very well know, that took 13, 14, 15, almost three years to do.

I lost about 30 pounds, my hair went gray, I lost a few friends, But I made the movie.

So that's my story.

I want to hear how you did it.

You said sub million.

Now, we all know that your average movie, indie, probably going to start in that 750 to 1.2 ish.

Right?

If you're doing it for less than 1, 2, people are going to look at you like, oh, you're not serious.

So.

Well, I think the key is that you have to make it look like you spent more than 1.2.

And I think we accomplished that.

And what still remains, I mean, I go into meetings with professionals and they, they think, I spent, we spent two and a half to $5 million on that movie.

So, I mean, you have 5 million and it doesn't look good.

You can't be like, but it costs $5 million.

At the end of the day, all that matters is what goes on the screen and what people See, it's the same with your.

You can't tell people, oh, well, the actor was sick that day and the performance was as good or it rained.

So we didn't get to do this cool thing.

No one cares.

They only care what's on the screen and what they get to see.

And that's the bottom line.

So you just have to put your best foot forward and you have to figure out ways to be creative to make it look better than it does then.

Then you have the money to do right.

And a lot of famous filmmakers have created shots and done a lot of things with no money because they had to, not because they thought, oh, I'm going to come up with a cool new way to chase someone in a horror movie by putting a camera on the end of a two by four.

They did that because they had no money to put it on anything else.

And now that's like a thing people do, right?

So it's just.

That's some of the fun of filmmaking is the creativity and when things go wrong, how do you make it better?

But it's also the stress of it too.

Right.

I personally, and I've probably always been this way.

Do I like the big movies?

Sure.

My wife and I went to see a Mission Impossible Final Reckoning this weekend.

I'll reserve my comments if you give no spoilers yet.

I haven't seen it.

Yeah, it is exactly what you expect for a.

What is it?

Was it 200 mil?

It was 200 million to make that thing?

Yeah.

And that's great.

That's well and good.

Of course, we all love the big tent poles, but I'm an indie fan, hardcore through and through.

I love the, the, you know, I'm cheering for the underdog.

The guys like you who say, oh, I've got $50,000, but I definitely need at least 300,000.

We'll use that as a round number.

And then you just figure out a way to raise it because when you want to do it, you figure it the hell out.

And at the end of the day too, I mean, I don't want people to listen to this and say, oh, I got to raise $750,000.

Because Dave said that's the number.

750 to 1.2.

I mean, I have buddies who came out of film school and made movies for 30 grand and they're great and I know people have made movies for more and they're terrible.

So like, you really, you gotta make something though.

I think that's the thing.

It's same with Writing.

Like, if you're gonna say, I'm an author, I'm a writer, you have to write.

You have to get things out there.

And if you want to be a filmmaker, you have to make movies.

And it does become a challenge with the money.

But I think if you're just starting out, there's nothing wrong with grabbing an iPhone and grabbing your buddies and trying to make something and learn from that and then say, okay, and maybe start with a short form.

Make something that's 10 minutes long.

Can I make something that would get me into usc, Right?

Yeah.

And watch it and get some honest feedback from people.

Don't just let your family tell you how great it is.

Maybe try to learn from that experience and then get better.

I mean, when I went to film school, you know, you make lots of these little shorts, and they all tend to get better.

And, you know, you don't really want to watch any of them afterwards because they're all student films at the end of the day, but they.

They lead you somewhere.

And every now and then, like, a Ryan Coogler comes along and makes a famous student film that's.

I think it's on HBO right now or somewhere.

But, you know, it's just.

It's all a growth process and a learning process, too.

Dude, when I was banging on the doors back in the day, this was 2012, 2013, this was somewhere around the time of Blair Witch Project.

And everyone goes, oh, my God, look what?

They made that for like $70,000.

And it made, you know, 500 billion.

Not real numbers.

And we all thought, oh, okay.

And then Robert Rodriguez, I remember following him in the early days, El Mariachi and all those, and I'm like, man, I want to be a part of that crew.

What people don't understand is that in that time when you and I were doing this, not that long ago, the rules were a little bit different.

Now with social media and YouTube world and content creators and influencers and all that stuff, it's much easier to just whip out a short for a reel just to get some interest.

Kind of back to your earlier point, don't you think?

You know, I agree.

And like, people who are funny and are comedians, I think they put up things that they're showing their talent level, right?

And I think there's.

You're trying to build a base, you're trying to build an audience, and I definitely think there's an avenue through that.

And I think it's.

One of the great things about the Internet is it's kind of Democratized things.

But it's also one of the fallbacks of the Internet, is that there's so much out there now.

So how do you cut through the noise?

And that's true with the book too.

It's like there's a million self published books out there now.

And you know, a lot of them now with AI, people are putting out this garbage that's not even real and you have to cut through the noise and try to get in front of people and so they see your, your talent level and your, your work at the end of the day too.

So that could be a challenge as well.

Do you, is it public knowledge how much what still remains cost you to make?

Yeah, it cost us about half a million dollars.

Five hundred.

Yeah.

Okay, good.

All right.

I don't think I've ever, I don't think I've ever shared this, but my film Chasing Grace, which is a faith based or softly safe faith based film I did for 220 and about 160 of that was real because I spent way too much money and crafty and making sure everybody, that's every movie.

We gotta feed people, make sure everybody had nice fancy coffees during their lunch break and foot massages and stuff like that.

Anyway, those are the things you think about.

I don't know about foot massages, but you got to feed people, you got to take care of people.

Yeah.

You know, the crew that's working for you can't like, you can't be sleeping in vans.

I mean, you gotta like put people up and do it the right way.

Yeah, no, no, I was kidding about the foot massager.

But if you, if you feed people properly, keep them hydrated and have an atmosphere of fun even to the best of your ability.

Because I'm sure you pulled 12, 14 hour days minimum, right?

Mm.

Again, we were shooting six to eight pages a day, which for people who don't know a page is about a minute in a movie.

And you know, so yeah, 90, 90, 90 page script.

You're doing it in like 15, 16 days.

You're shooting at least six, six pages a day and that's a lot.

And you're trying to get as many setups as you can because really you want to have shot diversity.

You just don't want to have a bunch of people talking over their shoulders, otherwise it becomes boring.

So I mean it's a challenge of pushing people and getting through people and obviously people get tired and they, their nerves get frayed and there's some high emotions when you make movies too and again, not abusing people and meeting those 12 hour days because that's, that's your, that's your limit.

Those are the working laws and giving people lunches and breaks.

So if you go overtime, you got to pay them.

So I mean, we did like a real movie with SAG and you know, so there was no, oh, we're just going to stay and keep shooting.

I mean, we had to meet our days and you had to move on.

Yeah.

Another note to want to be filmmakers do not make set changes, location changes, multiple changes in a day, because you're going to screw yourself.

Note to self.

Well, what still remains?

I mean, we didn't really say.

I mean it's a post apocalyptic drama.

So it follows a young girl coming of age after the world has been destroyed a long time ago.

So it's sort of like if a zombie apocalypse happened and now we're 30 years after it, it's over, we're following the people who survived it.

And really for me it was a genre mashup.

So it's really more of a coming of age family melodrama that I hid within these thriller clothing.

But the reason I set the movie like that is I was able to go out in the woods and you know, you turn 90 degrees in the woods and walk 50ft and now you have a new location and you can literally shoot scenes at night and not turn the camera and just move actors around and people can't tell that you're shooting the same direction.

So I mean those are like filmmaker tricks to make your days where it's, we're not having to move all the lights because that's the other thing you don't think about.

If you, if you turn the camera around, you have to turn all the lights too.

So I mean, that takes time.

You know, I could sit here and geek out with you for an hour, but I don't have the time.

But I do, I really appreciate and respect what you've created because it's not an easy feat.

And I know that was.

Yeah, and that was seven years ago.

So my question is, and this was one point I wanted to make sure.

First of all, I want to say the film looks like $2 million.

I mean, you really, you really nailed it.

I want to make sure that I get to dust or reigns, but I do want to finish this one thing.

And that is, you know, you, you, you created what still remains from a script, right?

Correct?

Yeah, that's right.

Meaning.

Right, meaning it didn't come from a book.

Now we all Know, one of the.

One of the best things I love about indie filmmaking is and.

And tell me how you feel about this, because I'm.

When.

When I was sitting down with my team back in 2013, I said, look, and we're all like, what do we make?

I'm like, well, the absolute easiest thing, the thing that you're probably most likely going to be able to sell is either horror or some kind of apocalyptic bs, right?

For sure.

It's cheap, it's easy, it's fast, everybody likes it.

You get too much into drama, et cetera, it's going to get expensive.

I learned the wrong the hard way that that was the case.

So I want to know, will you.

Do you have intentions of.

Because this little dandy right here, Shadow of the Eternal Watcher, would make a fantastic film.

Yeah.

You know, I mean, obviously I'm.

I'm a filmmaker for a reason.

I'm a very visual person.

So when I wrote Shadow of the Eternal Watcher, I mean, I'm still that guy.

So I definitely wrote a lot of set piece action sequences in that book that could be great for a movie.

And, you know, you do movies long enough.

I mean, there's plenty of scripts that are sitting on shelves that I thought were going to get made, and they didn't get made, and I was going to make a movie, and all of a sudden Covid happens, and it's like, oh, well, let's work on the script.

And we've got the money, and once we figure out how we're going to shoot with COVID then we'll make this movie, and a year later the money's gone, so you don't make that movie and all this time is wasted.

So, I mean, one of the things about the book was getting back to my roots.

I originally went to school to be an author.

That's why I always wanted to be when I was a kid.

And I kind of got sidetracked into movies.

I always loved movies, too.

I was both.

I was the kid sitting in the science fiction section of his bookstore, reading all the books.

I'm like, I'm gonna be an author.

I got in the.

I went to Stanford University.

I took a film class there.

We were watching Sizz and Kane, and it was like the first time in a movie when I was watching, I ever noticed a cut in the movie.

It was a weird thing because I was a big cinephile too, but I just was like, oh, they moved the camera.

I just noticed it.

And I was like, I could do that.

And I just went on this sidetrack, away from the authorship and started chasing that dream of being a filmmaker.

And actually, when we were in post on what still remains, I had an idea.

I had two ideas jumbled in my brain.

I was like, this will be the next thing I write.

I had this big space opera, big science fiction thing, and I had this like, kind of gritty, Louisiana Noire detective.

And then I was thinking about writing them and I was like, well, what if I mash them together?

And that would be a real cool challenge of like, how do I do this La Noire detective, but end up in this big space opera?

And because that's what I like to do, I do genre mashups.

So I was like, well, that's fun.

So I start writing a script for it and I'm like, well, you know, this is going to be like $100 million, $200 million movie.

And I just got done making a half million dollar movie.

I don't know if I'm jumping up that quickly, so this is probably going to sit on someone's shelf.

And I said, well, why don't I get back to my roots, try to write the book and maybe it becomes a movie one day and maybe that's the way to that bigger budget too.

But I tried to just write a very elevated high level thriller novel that could stand alone as a book as well.

Well, mission accomplished, as I like to say.

And this is, this is that book.

And a mashup indeed.

Folks, you need to pick this up and read it now.

I do want to.

Let's not miss out on dust or Rains.

And I want to say this.

I tend to do this sometimes.

Josh.

I will pick up a book I don't read sometimes.

I don't read the back blurb.

I.

I just want to dive in.

I read a little bit.

I'm like, okay, Duster Rains has Damon Some visit him in his dreams.

Combat PI.

And then I stop.

Yeah.

And I'm like, okay, now surprise me.

So I open the book, I start reading in the prologue and I'm.

And I'm really, I'm literally going, what the.

What, what, what?

And I'm, I'm turning the pages and I'm.

Okay, first council.

All right.

And I'm like.

And I'm about ready to go.

Wait, I didn't think.

And then chapter one, I'm like, no, okay, okay, now, now, now I know what's going on.

I'm in for the ride.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So tell us about, tell us about Duster Reigns.

Yeah.

So, I mean, originally the book started with chapter one.

That was always where I started was Duster Reigns down as luck detective driving the streets of Los Angeles when he shouldn't be because he's had a few too many on his way to a case he doesn't want to take.

And he's just this broken.

Just the classic la Noire detective story.

And I wanted to want to set up the stereotype and then try to break expectations and like break what people are used to.

And I tried to do the same thing with the sci fi is like, what are people used to seeing?

Multiversal stories.

How people are used to this now, obviously, with the.

With Spider man and there's 50 million versions.

So in my book, I took a different tack.

And there's only really two universes where humanity still exists.

And I thought would be fun for the detective.

Part of his mystery is, well, he's got this murder mystery solving, but he's also solving the mystery that he's actually in a sci fi book too.

So the prologue, though, is to set the reader up, because I know that if I just wrote the detective part and then like halfway through it was a sci fi, I'd probably lose a lot of people.

So I wanted to make sure people knew, hey, this is gonna be a science fiction book.

So here's some heavy sci fi right at the beginning.

And then we get into the first person narrative.

That's the.

The gritty detective, like so many Dashiell Hammond, that kind of vibe.

Yeah, Yeah.

I felt instantly at home once I, you know, when he had been pulled over from the cop and he's completely plowed, and I'm like, okay, we see where this is going, but do you.

I have to ask this.

I mean, it's kind of logical.

Do you think Duster's going to hang out for a series?

I mean, you've.

You've built the universe, so.

Yeah.

Well, I've actually got a second book I'm working on.

I left it open ended.

I think the book stands on its own as it is.

But I left it open for me to do another one, and I am writing another one.

And I'm also writing.

You talked about how books become movies.

I'm actually doing the opposite.

I have this screenplay, was actually a short film I did that, did really well, played some film festivals, became a screenplay, won me some awards, got me some meetings, and I'm like, you know, that would be a great standalone thriller book.

It's basically Jaws meets Deliverance with a bear.

Set in Alaska.

It's just a lot of fun.

It's a lot of magical realism.

So I'm actually taking that script and reverse engineering it into a novel.

That's been fun.

That's a different kind of challenge because you have obviously an outline template with a script, but a script is so different than a book.

So it's fun to kind of be fleshing the story out too.

Okay.

Two quick things.

Yeah.

Jaws meets Deliverance.

Deliverance with a bear.

It's a.

Not shark, it's a bear.

But yeah.

Yeah.

Wow.

The image that instantly hit my head was Cocaine Bear.

Have you ever seen that film?

Yeah, I have seen that.

Mine's a little more serious than Cocaine Bear.

That was probably one of the most ridiculous films I've ever seen.

But.

But it was fun.

And here's the thing.

It got made.

All right.

Yeah, that's right.

But yeah, we'll see more of Duster Reigns too.

I'll have that draft probably done by the end of this year.

Do you think you will always dance in the sci fi mashup world?

You know, I mean, like, I love sci fi.

Like I said, I was the kid reading Dune.

I was the kid who read every Star Wars Expanded Universe book back when we didn't have 9 million Disney Plus TV shows.

All I have are the VHS tapes that I ran the tape out on, watching them every day and reading those books.

But I love sci fi.

But, you know, I write a lot of different stuff.

I just like.

I have a great script that's basically a modern western set in Arizona where I grew up.

So, I mean, I play with all the genres.

I just like.

I like genre.

So I would say there's usually an element of magical realism or the out there in my books.

I mean, I love.

I love Twilight Zone.

I love that kind of vibe too.

So I definitely skirt all the.

Skirt all of that with my work.

And you know what?

I think mashups, to borrow that phrase from you, I think mashups in that whole world is a really splendid way.

Sandbox to play in.

Because we've.

We have so much content.

Captain Obvious, so much content these days coming at us from every single direction that it begs the audience to go, can I have something just a little bit new?

So we're.

You know, in my mind, I'm always trying to find some.

How can I look at this at a new angle?

Kind of like you said with the tricks of filmmakers.

How can I.

How can I make this scene happen?

I don't have a Chapman to Roll across the thing.

I don't have a.

A super dolly to go sky high overhead.

I.

But I do have a, you know, an eight foot two by four.

Okay.

Make it happen.

Well, like in my movie, just real quick.

I mean, we had a jib and I really wanted a crane shot.

There's this scene with that, right in the movie where we light a bunch of things on fire.

We're gonna light more things on fire.

Actually, in.

The forest service told us we couldn't because the forest burned down the year before.

So you gotta also have your permits and follow the rules.

But we basically just put the jib on a dolly and then did like a.

We did a crane move by pushing away and lifting this dolly up on the hill.

And it looks like we had a crane on the day.

It looks really good.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

Like I said, I could spend hours.

Matter of fact, what I may do, especially if you swing around and do it, do another film, you'll come back and we'll sit down and carve out a whole hour to just geek out on this stuff.

But I won't throw my back out next time.

Yeah, please don't do that.

I'm glad we got together.

I do want to say, I always close every show.

I don't.

I'm not going to, you know, I'm not going to embarrass myself by asking if you have seen the Thriller Zone.

But I finish every show with the question, what's your best writing advice?

Now?

Now that I know you have a BA in English from Stanford, and I must have glossed over that somewhere because I was so geeked out by the film aspect of your career.

I'm going to say, I know you have some solid writing advice since you've been tinkering with this for so long.

So leave us with your best shot.

You know, I mean, for me, it's showing up and doing it right.

And I always tell people who want to be writers, I think that was something I wish I'd known when I was younger.

It's like, you know, you look at a book, right, and you're like, how am I going to write 100,000 words?

How am I going to write 80,000 words?

I mean, 80,000 words is a 300 page book for people who don't know.

But I just look at like, well, can I show up and write 500 words today?

And if you show up three times a week, four times a week, write 500 words a day, that's 2,000 words.

You'd have a book in 40 weeks, that's less than a year.

Right.

So, I mean, I try to write more than that, but I think that's an achievable goal for people.

And then you gotta go back and fix it.

Because I think sometimes people too think, oh, I wrote this.

This is it.

It's great.

And writing is rewriting.

You rewrite, you rewrite, you rewrite.

But I think just moving forward, getting to the finish line, having a finished product, it's so much easier to go back and look at something that's on the page and find.

Fix it than it is to stare at a blank screen and be like, oh, my God, how is this going to be a book?

So this 500 words or less, maybe it's 200 words, but set a goal that you know you can achieve and do it consistently every week, and you'll end up with something that's finished by the end.

That is such good advice.

And I'm flashing back to Brad Thor was on the show recently, and he taught.

He had a very similar piece of advice.

Robert De Goni.

Bob De Goni says a similar thing.

So, yeah, if you.

And my dad used to say.

My wife loves his saying, if you aim at nothing, you'll hit it every time.

Yeah.

So aim for something.

Put in the time and little or small, you'll get there eventually In.

In.

In correspondence to your level of passion.

Exactly.

Once again, I love this title, Shadow of the Eternal Watcher.

It's one of those titles that.

And.

And I don't usually GE titles very often.

I usually geek out on book covers, but this one particularly.

I don't know, it's just.

It's.

It's so good.

Thank you so much, Dave.

Yeah.

And Josh, thank you again.

I'm glad.

I hope you feel better.

Hope the back heals up.

I know.

Well, thanks for being understanding.

Yeah, it's.

I work out a lot, and of course, I did it.

I must be getting older.

I went to pick something up that weighs nothing.

I've done a thousand times.

It's like, oh, and now I can't stand up today.

Well, all right.

Father Time comes for us all, and.

There'S no stopping it.

There's not.

All right, well, once again, thank you.

And folks, learn more@joshmendoza.com the book again, Shadow of the Eternal Watcher.

Thanks again, Josh.

Thanks, Dave.

I enjoyed it.

Bam.

How good was that?

Josh is a good dude.

A little technical snafu there on the visuals, but who cares?

Folks, let me tell you what we've Got for you as we kick off the month of June.

All right, now, you know that we're this close.

We're this close to season nine.

Number nine.

Number nine.

Can you believe this?

Season nine.

Season nine will be four years mid June.

We're celebrating our fourth year.

Now, that may not sound like a really big deal to you, but let me tell you something.

It takes a little tenacity to make these things.

So who do we have to kick off the month of June?

Only one of the biggest publishers in the entire world, Emily Bessler of Emily Bessler Books.

Yeah, she does some work with some of the big publishing houses in the world.

I think you know what I'm talking about.

How he pulled this off, I don't know.

But she's lovely, brilliant, savvy.

And I thought it would be cool to speak with one of the leaders of the publishing business to sit down and talk about the business of publishing.

We have a lot of writers who are talking about the creative world, you know, the creative side of crafting stories.

But how about the business these days?

As you very well know, it's probably 50, 50.

Remember the days when we'd like, oh, talk to my agent.

I'm off writing a book.

I'll see you in a year, year and a half, two years.

They do.

Everything else those days are gone, folks.

Gone.

Now the onus is on you.

You gotta write the book, you gotta help market it.

And Emily Bessler, man, I'm so excited.

Is gonna be on this show talking about that very thing.

So do me a favor, be sure to put that on your calendar.

What day was that that's gonna be?

Oh, I don't know.

Let me see.

Thursday.

You know, it's a Thursday.

Thriller Thursday.

Oh, that would be June 5th.

That's right.

5:00am Eastern, 2:00am Pacific, right here on the Thriller Zone.

I'm Dave Temple, your host, and I'll see you then for another edition of the Thriller Zone, your number one podcast for stories that thrill the Thriller Zone.