Taylor Moore, author of Ricochet

David: If you've listened to the show before, Taylor, you know that I fly off the cuff. I have lots of fun. Everything goes.

Taylor Moore: Yeah, that's fine by me.

David: And just in, just in case you needed that warning.

Taylor Moore: Mm-hmm. Always nice to have

David: Well,

Taylor Moore: one just in case. Ha ha ha.

David: yeah, yeah. And you're, you know, the, the screen may get a little blurry from time to time, or things may get kind of hinky in the G hall, but don't you worry about it.

Taylor Moore: Okay.

David: Welcome to the Thriller Zone, Taylor Moore.

Taylor Moore: Hey, it's great to be here, David. Thanks for having me on.

David: Did I don't know if you saw on my social media this little book being bent up in my lap as I was flying back from Colorado Springs

Taylor Moore: Yeah, that's what I like to see. I like to see them nice and been up and used and worn. That makes nothing gives me greater joy.

David: Good, because this one, I have taken the liberty, as everyone knows about me, I put a few things in the, usually, oh yeah, there you go. But here's what I do, here's my notes that, as I'm reading, I'm like, oh, don't forget to say this, but this page I'm saving for last because it's my official one-line blurb review.

Taylor Moore: Okay, I love it. I can't wait to see it and hear it.

David: You're gonna like it. All right, so I'd like to first of all, just say welcome and you told me just seconds before we came on something about a cold snap folks. I think he used

Taylor Moore: Yeah.

David: the phrase cold snap. Now you're

Taylor Moore: But

David: north of Houston, right?

Taylor Moore: yeah. Oh, we're way north of Houston. I am in Amarillo, Texas right now. And it's just for people that know, I mean, for most people outside of Texas, Texas is just Texas, but in reality, Texas is not Texas. Amarillo is just doing its own thing out here. We're up on the high plains. It's a completely different climate. For me to drive to Houston, it'd be, I think nine or 10 hours. So I had some fun with my

David: Ooh.

Taylor Moore: publicist the other day Yeah, you could just pop over to Houston. I was like, no, I don't, there's no popping over. Um, this is a big state and I'm on the far end of it, but yeah, we actually got a little, a little cold snap. I think it's going to be a high of 80 today or somewhere and everyone else is, is 108. So I'll take it.

David: Yeah. Get your sweater, Taylor. It's gonna be a chilly 80. Ha

Taylor Moore: Yeah,

David: ha ha.

Taylor Moore: right. This is sweater weather when you're on the high plains, I guess. I don't know.

David: One of my fondest memories of Texas, I have two specific memories of Texas if I can take this second to share. One of them was spending a summer in a little town called Longview, Texas.

Taylor Moore: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I know of Longview.

David: Yeah, I had never been there before. I went there for a little college prep program, a little squeeze in refresher course before attending college and it was hotter than hell.

Taylor Moore: Yeah,

David: Got there

Taylor Moore: yeah, that's

David: in,

Taylor Moore: East

David: I want

Taylor Moore: Texas.

David: to say August and I'm,

Taylor Moore: Yeah.

David: Oh, and the other thing is I'm, I'm leaving Chicago back in 91 heading west, going to LA to chase fame and fortune and I remember hitting Texas and, and driving and driving. and driving him like, this is the biggest state I have ever seen.

Taylor Moore: Yeah,

David: Big

Taylor Moore: yeah,

David: state.

Taylor Moore: it's amazing. Well, first of all, how did you end up in Longview? Was there like a possum skinning course or something that you had to take before? What on earth would put you in East Texas? That's what I want to know.

David: Uh, let's see. It was a, it was a college prep program at, um, Luterno.

Taylor Moore: Okay, okay, you have heard of that thing?

David: And

Taylor Moore: Sounds familiar.

David: for some reason, my parents didn't think I was smart enough, so they needed a... You know, just in case you missed a few things, David, we're going to send you a little crash course in Longview. Oh, where's that?

Taylor Moore: Okay.

David: Oh, it's somewhere in Texas. It's just a little drive here from Virginia.

Taylor Moore: Well, maybe

David: So

Taylor Moore: that

David: anyway,

Taylor Moore: was

David: we won't

Taylor Moore: some

David: take...

Taylor Moore: sort of like a punishment. If you didn't do well where you're going, they're going to send you back to Longview. Is it maybe

David: Thank

Taylor Moore: one

David: you.

Taylor Moore: of those carrot and whip kind of a thing? I don't know.

David: Well, having grown up as a PK, there was plenty of punishment in my life.

Taylor Moore: Yeah, there you go. No, East Texas is great. And I'm not technically from East Texas, but I always say I could throw a rock and hit it from where I was in central Texas. But no, it's great. But it is hot in the summertime and nice and steamy down

David: Yeah,

Taylor Moore: there.

David: yeah. All right. Now that we've covered weather, we're going to get right into your book ricochet, a Garrett Cole novel. Now it's my first introduction to Garrett and I'm going to say right out of the gate, I like this guy. There's

Taylor Moore: Okay,

David: that.

Taylor Moore: good. That's always a good start.

David: I hope this is a compliment because for some reason, or oh I'm not even sure that Walt Longmire from the TV series that wasn't Texas that he was in was it you'd know that

Taylor Moore: No, see Longmire, he's in Montana, right? Or Wyoming, I

David: Okay,

Taylor Moore: get those,

David: thank you.

Taylor Moore: sometimes I get confused. I know CJ Box, he's got the Wyoming area covered, but I think Longmire's in Montana, but I could be wrong.

David: way it made me think of that and to me that is a compliment because I really loved Longmire and I like CJ Box books so you are in my opinion in that same arena I hope that's good in a fair estimation

Taylor Moore: It's a great, it's a wonderful compliment for me to be put with those two legends. And no, absolutely, I'll take that all day long. For, you know, a lot of times my editor I've noticed they'll put, you know, for readers of CJ Box, she'll like Taylor Moore's, you know, blah, blah. And I always love that because I think more than anyone, CJ Box has probably been what I try to aspire to in writing. You know, he's got this long running great series with this sort of singular. Protagonist, you know, with all this cast of characters that you follow through. And that's what I always wanted for Garrett, because, you know, of course, I'm about to finish up book four and turn that into my publisher. But when you start with Garrett, you know, the protagonist, he's got all this he's got family, he's got friends, he's got all this circle around him. And I wanted people to grow with the protagonist and with that family and with those friendships. And so I love what CJ Box has done with that series, because when you start, if I remember correctly, I think the girls are like infants or babies. And now we're up, the last book I think I read, they're off out of college or on that level. So to me, it's fun for a reader. I mean, I'm a fan of his series, so it's a fan to grow with the family. And that's what I wanted to do. So I love that comparison.

David: Well, good. And so you are in good company. And for those folks who don't know Taylor Moore and don't know Ricochet, don't know about this series we're talking about, we kicked off with Downrange, followed up with Firestorm. You got plenty of great reviews on Amazon, lots of nice high numbers on Goodreads, and a couple of things that I got instantly from reading this. And as I said, as I mentioned, the photograph and social media, I read half of it from San Diego to Colorado Springs. And as soon as we got on the plane, and back. I finished the second half. So I got it in two sittings and it was just a great, great read.

Taylor Moore: Well, thank you. Appreciate that. And it's funny you mentioned that. I've always, people have always asked me what, you know, there's two, there's two compliments that are the highest one. I love to see, like you said, a war, a well-worn book, cause I think that's a good sign that somebody's really dug into it. But the fact that, you know, you, you read it in these two sittings, I get, people email me DM me all the time. They'll say I sat down and read that book from start to finish and There's a part of me that loves it because I think that's wonderful. There's that other part of me that goes, it took me nine months to write this and you read it nine hours or whatever. Give me a little break here because everybody wants to know when's the next one, when's the next one. But no greater compliment than when people will just sit down there and just read them in one, two, three days or something like that. I think it's just great.

David: Yeah, and let me drill down on that for a second, Taylor, because I'm one of those people, as I was growing up, I wanted a big, fat, juicy book that I could start on a Thursday after class, or maybe Friday morning and just take the whole weekend, maybe even into the next week with. But these days, because my job asks for me to read two to three books a week, I don't have that luxury. However, it is a great compliment in that when you get to reading and you're caught up in the story and the characters and then And i'm gonna get on i'm gonna i'm gonna bring this point up again a little bit later in the show But you have a great technique at the end of every chapter that just makes your hand go I mean you cannot

Taylor Moore: Yeah.

David: stop from turning that page. So it's a compliment but I am with you because remember reading or rather writing my first patent detective pat norrelly story, and I'd worked two years on that stinking thing. And I'm not in the caliber of you, for instance. But I had finished that I handed off to my brother-in-law, he read through it. He's like, Man, I love this one's the next one. I'm like, I just finished that one. Yeah, so

Taylor Moore: I know it's a great compliment, but it's one of those where you go, okay, now here we go again, you start on that next one. But I appreciate you saying that, you mentioned the hooks that I do, and that's another thing that I get when people write to me. They say like, I kept waiting for resolution. I kept waiting to get to a place where I could put the book down. I'll say, I don't give you resolution. You get to resolution when you get to the end. And that's the only time you're going to get it. So it's a fun thing, but I work really hard to keep those pages turning. And I recognize that people, there's a lot of competition for, in terms of entertainment of what people can choose these days. It's not like the old days when you have maybe a few TV shows and a book to read. I mean, there's a lot of competition. So if I'm going to grab people's interest, I know I've got to do a good job at that. So I work really, really hard.

David: Well, you do that and I'm not going to take the time to read that opening paragraph, but that opening paragraph sucks you in instantly and I kept thinking to myself and I'm gonna I'm gonna be real honest with you because I have read a lot of books and I've read a few of these books that the Gala or a gal will start writing and you go that first chapter or two. You're like man, you're off to the races and then it kind of peters out and I'm like, oh, so for some reason in the back of my head, I was reading this, I'm like, let's see what Taylor's got, let's see if he's got the juice to keep that thing going. And you turned on the heat and you just kept the heat going. I don't think I really caught my breath. I want to say down around chapter 9, chapter 10, I was like, oh, okay, I got a little respite now.

Taylor Moore: That's about all I ever give anyone. And you'll see it's like that in all my books. And there was something when I set out to write a series and I did a lot of research and I went to the library and I would get stacks of books. And there were things that, and these were great authors. The stories were good, the characters were good, the writing was good. But there was, as authors, we always talk about the mushy metal, right? I mean, and we've all gotten to that book that starts off really great and it may end great. But there's that mushy middle where the character just sort of like meandering around, and you're going like, what are you doing? Let's just get to this thing. And so that was one of the things that when I started that series, I really wanted to start with a bang. I wanna give you a little time to sort of sink in, get to know the characters, get to know what the problem is. And then when I take off, like it literally never slows down. And I try to give people a little bit of breath, you know, like, cut your breath a little bit here and there with some scenes that maybe are more meaningful. But I never want that tempo to really slow. I want people to sink their teeth in and be like, and just keep those pages turning.

David: Well, as I say, mission accomplished. All right, now

Taylor Moore: Thanks.

David: there's a couple of things I instantly got from reading this, and I wanna know how on point I am. It's about three things. Number one, you're from Texas, or have really done a heck of a lot of research, because Texas feels as much of a central character as some of the main characters in the book.

Taylor Moore: Yeah, no, that's absolutely true. In fact, at the Craft Fest this year, right before Thriller Fest, they invited me to teach a class called Your Setting as a Character. And one of the things, and again, that's one of the feedback that I get from readers all the time, is that I felt like Texas or the High Plains was another character in the book. And that's what I really wanted to do. You mentioned the Longmire series and the CJ Box series. And I think that's one of the things that I've loved about those two authors is that sense of place that you get when you're reading those books. With C.J. Box in particular, I always say he has done a great job of world building. I know this world exists,

David: Yeah.

Taylor Moore: but it doesn't exist for me because I've never been up there. I'd love to go. I am as fascinated with Wyoming and that part of the world as I am with the characters that are in the book. I want to know more about it. And so I really, when I started writing about the High Plains, yes, I'm from here, lived here, worked here, I've done all these different things. And so all these characters you're reading about, they're real people. They're just sort of an amalgam of human beings that I've met over my time and put them in and thrown them into a character or two. But that was one of the things I really wanted people to feel what it's like to be here. And again, I... I get readers all the time that'll write to me and say, man, now I really want to go to the high plains. I really want to go to the Texas pan. I want to visit this. And my first thought is like, well, that's great. And then my second is like, everything in my books, it's always trying to kill you in some form or fashion. Why do you want to come to this place where you might die? Because it's always sort of dangerous, but I guess there's a certain allure to it that people enjoy.

David: you're reaching for the fire. Sorry. So number two looks as though you've spent some time in some sort of intelligence work. Now I don't

Taylor Moore: Yes.

David: know. Could it have been CIA, Taylor,

Taylor Moore: Yeah,

David: Bunny

Taylor Moore: yeah,

David: Trans...

Taylor Moore: I spent some time in the CIA and then I went, did contract work with the military. So essentially took those skills and helped out, helped out our soldiers.

David: Now without getting drilling too deep or uh excuse me going to a place that you know I can't Can you give me even a whisper of a feel what a day in the life of a cia agent is like I mean is it is it on this side it is as much like any other nine to five it is or if it or it is a lot like television

Taylor Moore: I'd love to tell you that it's like television, but those moments are kind of few and far between although they do happen. They really do. You do have those really cool TV moments, but I think it's mostly like any other job. You're spending a lot of time in front of a computer. There's a lot of prep work. There's a lot of research. There's a lot of writing and emails and meetings and things like that, that you're when you're getting ready for those kinds of things. But I had a great experience as a CIA intelligence officer because I got to, as a writer, because I got to, I started in the directorate of intelligence, which is the analysis side. So when we think about the original Jack Ryan, the guy going to briefings and meetings and telling people, writing up these reports and being a subject matter expert, I got to do that. Which was really cool in its own right, because you're meeting with high level officials and you're writing for the president. You're doing all those. those fun things that have an impact on policy and what the warfighter is gonna do. And then I ended up moving to the operations side. So I went through that training and went through the more the traditional spy trade craft of what you do of the secret clandestine meetings and getting information, eliciting information from the people that you need, again, to sort of answer those questions that policy makers, the warfighter might have to either guide their direction or keep them safe or whatever it is. And so... So again, from a writer's perspective, it was great because I saw two different worlds. And even while I was at the agency, I did a stand in the operations center, but I always hear about the operations center and that's the DCI. You know, you're supporting the director and you're supporting the PDB briefers. And so you're literally at the, you know, the tip of the spear in terms of information dissemination on what the president is hearing you're up there, like helping them get the most up to date. whatever it is happening in the world, whatever explosion, whatever disaster, whatever assassination, you're right there. And so I got all of this perspective while I was at the agency, which was really great for writing.

David: What a daunting gig that would feel like. And again, I know some of that is because we've never been there. And you might say, oh, it must be a daunting gig to stand in a studio and be on the radio and talk to millions of people in New York City. And I'd go, yeah, but it's just like any other job. So

Taylor Moore: Yeah,

David: I kind of get that.

Taylor Moore: yeah,

David: I think

Taylor Moore: for

David: it's

Taylor Moore: sure.

David: because we romanticize. Maybe that's what it is, romanticize some of it.

Taylor Moore: Absolutely. Yeah, there's a certain amount of that. But, but yeah, you have your down times, but then there's the moments that you'll never forget. Or, you know, there was the times you were doing some things that, you know, when I was there to literally think a movie could be made about this or a book could be written about this. And it's pretty cool. It's pretty cool to be a part of that. Although I never claimed to be the lone guy out there doing it. It's, it's a group effort. It's a team effort for sure. And so everybody's got their piece to play. And they're there when they're doing this. And so But no, it was a fascinating time in my life and I'm glad I got to do that kind of work.

David: Yeah, and my third point there, as I'm refreshing everyone's memory here, as I'm reading for this, I want to see how on point I am. Now, there's something that tells me either you're a believer, have some kind of a genuine affinity to a particular flavor of religion, because in a thriller as such as this, you don't hear a lot of reference to God, or there's prayers throughout, and there must be some truth in that, correct?

Taylor Moore: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I am a Christian and a practicing Christian and that's my faith is very important to me. And so because it's important to me, it's important to Garrett. And so, you know, if anybody reads the books are not particularly what you call a religious book or anything, but there is that element. And I think that's, you know, that's sort of ingrained in us as not everyone in Texas, but I grew up on a ranch and I grew up in farming and all that. You're so dependent on the weather and all these factors that come to play, man. You get down on your knees multiple times throughout your life and just hope you're just praying for the best outcome for what you do. Because it's such a factor in your life. And Garrett is no different. I've instilled that in him because of the way he's brought up. And just through the trouble, his family, if you go back to book one, there's a lot of family drama. turmoil and things that have happened, the disasters that have affected their family. But that faith is something that he always turns back to and so it's become an important part of the series.

David: Yeah, I like it. I think it was a nice little touch, and you didn't heavy hand it. I mean, the only other person or persons that I can think of that have a similar influence is Andrews Wilson and some of their books. But no, it's just another aspect of the character that I enjoyed. Now, since it's clear your past jobs feed your current passion of storytelling, I wonder, can you share with my audience what superb past occurrences, like you mentioned, oh, there's a moment in my CIA career where, you know, it was like a scene in a movie. Was there something that happened that you were like, oh, now this right here, I'm going to hold on to because I'm guessing that you've always wanted I had an affinity toward writing. I'm going to use this later.

Taylor Moore: Yeah, so it's a great question because really the whole premise of the series is based on one moment when I was at the CIA. And because people ask me all the time, they said, you're writing about Garrett, who's in the DEA, but you were former CIA. And I had done a fair amount of counter narcotics work when I worked with the military, but it's a very different, it's not law enforcement. It's very looking at places like Central and South America. looking at zones and routes and who's involved and this kind of thing. So it's a very different perspective of what a law enforcement, someone that would be doing that job would be doing. But for me, what happened was I remember being in a meeting one time and this was at the CIA and it was multi agency and someone there and this person actually was from the FBI, but this person kind of raised her hand and said, look, I don't understand what you people do. And what he meant was not literally he didn't understand what the CIA does, but it was just our perspective. Uh, you know, what he said, he said, look, we're out making friends. We're, we're doing all these things with people around the world. Um, you don't seem to do that. And this guy way more senior than me, I was just part of the meeting said, no, we don't do that. We still secrets. That's what we do. And, um, and it's just a different perspective, a different mindset. The CIA is not. You're really there to be your friend. We do have allies and people around the world that we work with very closely. But at the end of the day, you're there to steal secrets. You're there as a tip of the spirit for the United States government, in terms of finding out what threats are out there to our country. And so I just remember the guy sort of shaking, from the FBI just sort of shaking his head and the person who said it just didn't back down a bit. And so I always start with Garrett, what if you took this sort of law and order cowboy, you sort of mentioned the religious aspect, a guy who

David: Huh?

Taylor Moore: is pretty clear on black and white and what's right and wrong. What if you put him in that gray world of the CIA? What would happen? What would it look like? How would he react? And so if you go back to down range book one, that's exactly what happens is you take the sort of black and white cowboy and put him in that gray world and let him maneuver in that CIA world for a while. And so the question will become, Does he change that world? Does that world change him?

David: Oh.

Taylor Moore: How will he maneuver? How will he operate without really losing his soul or losing his way? And so to me, that was what kind of helped launch that series.

David: Wow, that's a great way to look at it too. And you know, without sounding too technical, I want to say that There's something that you show this superb mechanics as you dish out details. However, you don't do it by complicating the story with superfluous words. And what I mean by that is sometimes I get barraged by all this explanation of stuff that I go, OK, already. Just get onto the action or get onto the story. And what you do is you dollop in little tidbits of the information that I need to know. even I'll even I caught myself going alright. Well, Garrett's doing this, but I mean, does he know how to blank? And within the next couple of sentences, boom, here's, here's how he, not only did the knife suddenly appear, but here's why the knife is there, that's why the knife is hidden, et cetera. So little things like that. And I, and I don't want to beat a beat it at horse, but it's like you, you give me just enough detail without bombarding me with a minutia of words and details. Does that make sense?

Taylor Moore: So yeah, it absolutely makes sense. And just so you know, that is not by accident either. I work really, really hard to do that. And it involves a lot of cutting on my behalf later on. I probably do have superfluous words throughout, and I go in and go, nope, we don't need that, nope, we don't need that. Here's what we need, here's the basics. Because I want to keep people going. But the biggest thing, the biggest part of that for me as a writer, is I never want to take the reader out of that point of view of whoever they're reading about. And so there's that danger when you go from that person's head to narrator voice. And I never want to get into that narrator voice because I never want the reader to not think that they are seeing through the eyes of whoever they're reading about at that moment. So

David: Oh, that's good.

Taylor Moore: if I do have like historical facts in there, there's usually a reason. Like it's usually in their head like, oh, I've seen this. I love this place over here or this place means a lot to me or there's a reason, there's not just random historical facts. I'm painting a dirty picture of something. I'm painting something a little bit ugly and sinister, and you're gonna get a little historical context with it, but it'll be that character remembering it. And you might not even notice that it's happening, but that's the point, is that you're not jumping out a narrator's voice, you're always in their head.

David: That is so good because I never thought about it. Well, I didn't tear it apart and analyze it quite as much as you just did, but that makes so much sense because sometimes the narrator can get in the way, but I felt like I was always, it was a combination of front row seat, inside his head, a new, on a rare occasion, you'd pop in somebody brand new that I hadn't met yet. I'm like, wait, where did they come from? But if you just hang in there a sentence or two, you go, OK, got it. It's a new

Taylor Moore: Yep.

David: character. Here's another thing I love. You use a nice little bit of humor throughout. And again, there's a couple things there that makes this book unique. A little bit of faith, a little bit of humor, inside all this hell-breaking loose stuff that's going on. So kudos to you there.

Taylor Moore: Thank you.

David: I suppose you could call it a... I want to give you all these great compliments because I'm going to come around in the other direction now.

Taylor Moore: Okay.

David: I think you can call it an occupational hazard the way I see patterns and recall repeated phrase. I, for some reason, my brain is just picks up on that stuff. And just ask Chris Hottie, who was on my show, we had a sit down and on May 17th episode and I called out one of his phrases that he uses entirely too much because there are phrases every author I do it too. We all got a phrase or a turn of a phrase that we really love. Yours is, so-and-so held up their hands and pushed the air.

Taylor Moore: Okay. I've got it now. I've got to write that down. We get off. So I'll just do it. Do a search for it and get rid of it.

David: Now, I did not do this because I didn't want to look like I was insulting you. The first time I caught it, I'm like, oh, because it's a visual thing. And it's basically, whoa, hey, don't come at me like that. You're pushing the air. But then you use it a second time. And I'm like, wow, I don't know that I've ever heard anyone use that phrase. Well, by about the seventh time I'm like, oh, okay. There's Taylor's little pet phrase.

Taylor Moore: Okay, I'm glad you put, I need to send you my drafts before they go anywhere. You're my new editor. You didn't know you were going to get that job.

David: Yeah, well,

Taylor Moore: No thanks for pointing

David: just

Taylor Moore: that

David: ask my

Taylor Moore: out.

David: wife.

Taylor Moore: You know, I think what happens, what you do, of course, every author struggles with echoes, right? I mean, there's that echo

David: Mm-hmm.

Taylor Moore: and what went for any non writers out there and echo is just a repeated word. And you think, well, that doesn't sound that big of a deal, but it does when you're reading it, it hits the error wrong. And so a lot of times I'll find them and then I'll just replace it with something that echoes somewhere else. And I do that all the time, like, how did I miss this? And it's probably would be laughable if somebody was watching me do this because you're just replacing that one with another word that's right above it. But I think that's what happens. But no, thanks for pointing that out because I'll make sure that book four is about to get turned in. So I'm definitely gonna do a search for that.

David: Well, I asked my wife, I have this tendency, and I think it's just pattern watching. I don't know what that is in my brain, but I just see patterns, and the minute I see it, I can see it repeatedly everywhere. Now, the good news is it's served me well in a lot of different careers. For people who are overly sensitive, it doesn't come across as a compliment. So...

Taylor Moore: Yeah. Well, you know, another funny one, and somebody brought this up one time and they said, did you really love the movie Tombstone? I said, oh, absolutely. One of my all time favorites. They said, well, you've used a couple of things that are like similar. And I really didn't mean to. And I never want to like, you know, I mean, you just hate that, that you do something that, and they were like, oh no, I thought it was really cool. I thought, you know, Garrett, like he probably was, he's a tombstone character. I said they're all. kind of like that, but sometimes there's stuff that just seeps into your head and it just becomes part of you too.

David: Well, it's all good, Taylor. No complaints here. I do think, it's funny, one of your specialties, which really resonated with me as I realized, probably around 26 or 27, I remember, let's see, let me double check, yeah, 58. Yeah, I'm halfway, I'm just about to land in Colorado Springs. And I found my, I actually caught myself going, Oh! And here's what it is. I'm like, wait a minute, between his setups and then the way you do that crescendo at the end of each chapter, I'm like, man, this is like screenwriter stuff. And then I went, wait a minute, did I read? And I flipped here on the back and I go, oh yeah, he now lives in Texas. Full-time author, screenwriter and speaker. And I'm like, there you go.

Taylor Moore: Mm-hmm.

David: That, yeah. It's a compliment for certain because it's again that little thing to get you to turn the page. So,

Taylor Moore: Well,

David: but it's funny

Taylor Moore: there's

David: when

Taylor Moore: a,

David: something like that clicks.

Taylor Moore: it does. And, you know, it's funny, I never read my reviews, but for some reason I started reading reviews the other day. I think I was probably just procrastinating because I didn't want to write or something. And so I was like, I better read these reviews. I haven't read in years, you know, and someone said this guy writes like a screenwriter, you know, of course I was saying that in a bad way, but you know, there's some truth to it because there's a lot of what I take into, I think the way people read now, is a little bit different than maybe it was in years past. And so, like I said, I mentioned, there's my heroes that I have. Larry McMurtry was one of them. I take a lot of the sort of character building from him because I love those wacky characters that he would put in the last picture show and that whole series that just kept going. I love those sort of Texas characters that are just say funny things and do funny things. have funny reactions.

David: Sure.

Taylor Moore: CJ Box, as I mentioned, I love his tempo and pacing. I love the way he does that setting. But when it comes to how I do my pacing in terms of chapters, I pull a lot from film. What I've always really loved is if anybody's watched Narcos, Narcos Mexico, that series on Netflix, I

David: Yeah.

Taylor Moore: love that sort of multiple points of view. where the reader or the viewer in that case is watching these things play out. You're seeing the bad guy, you're seeing the good guy, you're watching it all come crashing down. And there's maybe multiple storylines that are all going on at the same time. They may be related, they may be unrelated, but it's all happening. I love that idea of all these things just sort of coming together. So I do, there's a little bit of visualization on my part as I write that I think is probably... I think a lot of people enjoy it. I mean, maybe some people don't, but I think it's helped me. I think it's helped me to generate with that sort of tempo that you talked about earlier where you really get going and kind of hook people in towards the end of the book.

David: Yes, and a couple of things. First of all, the people who have maybe not the greatest things to say about that, I want to say hui fui belui. You know, forget about it. Move along.

Taylor Moore: Yeah.

David: Who cares? I mean, I also want to say this. Oh, excuse me, Ding Dong. Can you tell me something? Do you enjoy television? Yeah. Do you enjoy movies? Yeah. Okay. How about this guy who happens to have that particular talent and along with being able to craft great long form narrative like he is, don't you see a little bit of the benefit there? Yeah. Move along.

Taylor Moore: Yeah. Ha ha

David: All

Taylor Moore: ha.

David: right. That's number one. Number two is, and I'm going to save, I was going to save this for later, but let me see where it is. Do I say, yeah, okay. Uh, this is my question. How many people have told you what I'm about to tell you having worked in and around Hollywood for several decades, that this story is handcrafted for a television movie or television series or a movie, how many people have told you that?

Taylor Moore: Well, a lot. And I guess the good news is

David: Exactly.

Taylor Moore: I've had a lot of Hollywood interests, so that's good.

David: And I'm pointing the arrow back to Ding Dong who said, well, I don't like people who write like a screenwriter. Well, I'll tell you what, I bet you dollars to donuts that you're gonna be sitting at home on your big fat ass watching a little bit of a ricochet

Taylor Moore: hahahaha

David: or some other Taylor Moore story in the very near future.

Taylor Moore: Yeah, well, hopefully. Hopefully

David: I will remove,

Taylor Moore: that...

David: yeah, soap, soap box is now moved.

Taylor Moore: There you go.

David: Now, I want to say this about Garrett Cole, because as we kind of start down the road to wrapping up, I like Garrett Cole. I like this guy. He's a hero I admire. He's a guy I want to read again. You know, I want to know. I can't wait to see how his love story blossoms

Taylor Moore: Yeah?

David: without getting too romantic on it, but

Taylor Moore: Yeah,

David: it is

Taylor Moore: right.

David: nice to little sprinkle in a little love story and amongst all the murder and mayhem.

Taylor Moore: Mm-hmm.

David: So I want to know where did he come from? I know it's going to be an amalgamation story, but give it to me anyway, and what's his secret sauce that makes him different from all the other lone soldier heroes that we have come to like? Two-part

Taylor Moore: There's

David: question.

Taylor Moore: a great story to where Garrett came from. He was actually, the book that I got my agent, the manuscript that I got my agent with, Garrett was a side character in that novel. And he was never the protagonist. He was always the guy helping the other guy. And as I was

David: Oh.

Taylor Moore: writing, I began to feel like Garrett was stealing the show a little bit, but I didn't want to admit that to myself because that would mean... writing a whole new novel or planning out a whole new series with a whole different character. But it was my agent, John Talbot, fantastic agent, who really was the one that pushed that. And he was the one that said, Taylor, he said, that's your guy, that's your protagonist right there. And so John, I got to give my agent credit for that. He had the vision for Garrett. And like I said, I always kind of felt like... I always kind of knew that but just didn't want to admit it because I didn't want to have to go back to the trouble of starting brand new but I did and so John encouraged me to start up, start fresh. So imagine for all you writers out there you finally land your agent and you've got this book that you've rewritten four or five times only to have your agent tell you let's trash this thing and let's start fresh but that's exactly what I did and it was exactly the right call and so This is a hard job. This is the hardest job I've ever had by far, is writing these novels. But I did it. I started fresh with Garrett Cole. And so that's where he came from. He was a side character. Oh, and your second question

David: and

Taylor Moore: was, what makes him different? I think there's a level of vulnerability to Garrett that you don't find. You know, a lot of these guys, some either have no flaws, or some flaws like, you know, the Maybe they got PTSD or so. I mean, nothing wrong with that flaw or there. But I think Garrett, there's nothing really technically, he doesn't really have a PTSD to speak of. He's got his war stories and he's got his demons from the past. But he's just a normal guy. He's

David: Yeah.

Taylor Moore: just a normal guy trying to do the right thing. And I think the fact that, OK, well, I'll give you another story you didn't ask this question. But people always ask me. you know, another thing that you try to put in the book. And I said, I try to put things in my novel series that are relatable to everyone because getting

David: Mm-hmm.

Taylor Moore: chased down by cartel secarios hopefully isn't relatable to everyone or having Russian mercenaries chase you. Hopefully isn't relatable to everyone. But family drama, that's relatable. Having, you know, a rift with your family, having a loss, having lost a loved one early on in life. And everyone's sort of reeling, still reeling from that, is something that people can relate to. Running into an old high school crush after years of having not seen this person is relatable. So there's all these relatable stories that happens with Garrett, and he handles them just like we would. I mean, he may be a Green Beret, former Green Beret, or just this tough guy, but he fumbles and falls and says the wrong thing and does the wrong thing. He becomes a... He's got a dad that he doesn't know how to deal with. And so I think there's a lot of fun things about Garrick that people can relate to. And I think that makes us like him and want to be his friend and want to get to know him more because he's multidimensional.

David: You know what? That is exactly, you couldn't have put it better. That's exactly why I like him because he feels like, he feels like one of us. He's, you know, sometimes I get a little tired and maybe it's because I've watched too many action heroes. But when you have characters that are absolutely flawless, It takes me out of the story because I'm like, really? You can handle every single weapon and every knife and every gun, and you know every little trick and you know how to kill everyone with your hands and you remember. And sometimes I go, you know, and yes, we do dive into that pool in order to swim in that world. However, sometimes, like this book Ricochet, I go... He's he's an ordinary guy trying to figure it out and get through there trying to raise a kid that you know Comes from a different generation in a different ethnic background And a girlfriend that you know, etc, etc. So uh, uh kudos to you By the way, I want to circle back to something and give some great big old love props to john talbot john talbot who runs Talbot notch, right?

Taylor Moore: That was a

David: He

Taylor Moore: fortune.

David: uh is one of the go What's that?

Taylor Moore: At Tub of Fortune is where John was with.

David: Oh, got it. Okay. Sorry.

Taylor Moore: Yeah,

David: Thank

Taylor Moore: yeah,

David: you. But

Taylor Moore: yeah.

David: so, so John is one of those guys. He shows up at Thriller Fest. Not a big gaggle of agents show up to Thriller Fest, but I think every time I've gone, he's been there. taking meetings, listening to stories. And I have a deep respect for that guy because he has discovered some really solid talent such as yourself and seems to be a writer's agent. And I know that sounds like, well, yeah, duh, dude, that's what they're there for. But sometimes there are business guys and then there are guys who are like, no, man, I really love the craft of the story. You know what I mean?

Taylor Moore: John, so you hit the nail on the head. There are, he is a writer's agent and there are agents that are just part of the business. I know other writers who don't really know their agents. They're just like these people that they deal with once a year when the book comes out or when they're negotiating a contract. John is my friend. I consider him a person I would confide things in and a person that I genuinely like and want to hang around with. And he's He's such a talent, he's got good instincts, he's good at his job, he's humble. He'll tell you that he doesn't always get it right, but he's one of those guys that can admit when he's wrong, but he's got good instincts and he's good at it. And he's, particularly for what we do, for the type of books we write, he loves the genre and it shows. And so now I've been very fortunate to have John. you know, by my side through this process and now he's great.

David: Yeah, well, kudos to you, John, and maybe you'll pick up one of my books one day.

Taylor Moore: Yeah.

David: Here, this just in, last from my high praise department, comes my one-liner blurb that, in my honest opinion, nails the description of this book, and you are free to use it in future book blurbs, if so necessary. This ricochet. Is Yellowstone meets Mission Impossible with a complex hero you instantly root for?

Taylor Moore: Love it. Boom. How can you? Yeah, I'll take it. I will take that description all day long. I love it. Absolutely love it.

David: My, let me share this with you, as I was flying back finishing the book, my wife goes, okay, because she loves, she, I'll give her the, sometimes I wish I would record these because I'll give my instantaneous like 60 second download on a book. And as I said, I read a lot of them and she goes, okay, wow, because she saw me ripping through this and she's over there reading Chris And I'm writing, reading this and she goes, so what is it? I'm like, you know what it is? It's Yellowstone meets Mission Impossible. She went,

Taylor Moore: I'm going to go ahead and turn it off.

David: bam, to quote you, David, bam. I'd read that.

Taylor Moore: Yeah,

David: I'm like, yeah, you will.

Taylor Moore: there you go. That's what Hollywood needs to hear right there, man. I mean, does it get any bigger than those two? So put those together and yeah, yeah. So there you have it.

David: Yeah, and I'll tell you something. I'm not sure that Yellowstone was my absolute favorite series, but I'll tell you what, two things. I love me some Kevin Costner, man. The guy is just, you know,

Taylor Moore: Yeah, he's a legend

David: and

Taylor Moore: though.

David: also Taylor Sheridan. Yeah, and can Taylor Sheridan write or what?

Taylor Moore: This guy is so prolific. I'm just, I don't know anyone who's done what he's done in history. I'm sure there's someone that's that, but I mean, to put out as much as he's put out that's been solid for the past few years is just, I don't know how that, some people, it's like they have, they've cloned themselves and Taylor Shannon would have to have cloned themselves to do what he's done in the past few years.

David: He has, folks, if you don't know Taylor Sheridan, look him up, I'm gonna get him on the show. That is gonna be one of my dream goals before Christmas, is to get Taylor Sheridan, because there is, I wanna drill into his psyche. How in the wide world of storytelling do you craft a hit after a hit after a hit after hit and make every episode. just as good as the last. I mean, that is hard.

Taylor Moore: Yeah, I don't know how he does that. It's amazing. See, I love his movies. I start off with the Sicario franchise and Hell or High Water. And I tell people all the time, if you like Hell or High Water, I mean, a lot of my series is kind of Hell or High Water. It's that same part of Texas. It's that sort of gritty, dark side of things that not everybody sees. And so no, I'd love, Taylor Sheridan is the hero of mine, along with

David: Yeah.

Taylor Moore: CJ Box. Those guys are just doing amazing things. No, I'm real heroes, man. Just talented guys.

David: Yeah, but not to distract from Taylor Sheridan, to distract from Taylor Moore, because here's a name that you're going to be remembering for years to come. Now, When we get off camera, I'm going to talk about this cover because I'm a fanatic for good covers. And I'm going to give you my honest opinion about this cover. At first glance, this is a solid cover. I'm going to say that, but I'm going to share some notes with you. But I'm only you because it's going to sound like I'm bad-mouthing it and I'm not.

Taylor Moore: Okay.

David: Lastly, can I do this? Before we go, can I turn this into a little bit of a commercial? Because I learned as I was drilling down that someone The company that built your website built my website, and that's

Taylor Moore: Mm-hmm.

David: authorbites.com.

Taylor Moore: Yeah. Yeah, I've sent a lot of people to AuthorBytes because I get a lot of questions like, who does your site? Do you recommend them? Highly, highly recommend AuthorBytes. In fact, I recommended them, I think, yesterday or the day before somebody had a question, and I sent them that way. Now, highly recommend them. They do a great job. It's a good staff, a good group of people. Can't say enough good things.

David: Yeah, and if you ever want to say, folks, if you're looking for your website, I'm going to, here's the plug. All right, here it comes straight up. If you want a website like TaylorMoreBooks.com or DavidTempleBooks.com, go to AuthorBytes.com. Oh, there it is right on the bell like it's

Taylor Moore: I'm

David: planned.

Taylor Moore: sorry.

David: And I'll tell you what, if you do, they're going to give you a three months free with a one year contract. But I just thought it was so interesting because your website looks delicious.

Taylor Moore: Yeah, I love my website. Now there's guys and just another little note and they probably will get mad at me for saying this, but I came to them and kind of a hat in hand, like in a hurry, I can't remember which book this was coming out. Maybe it was the first one. I, you know, you kind of lose track, but I was like, I really need this thing. And they're like, we'll get on it. And they did. And they had it ready before the, so they could have just said, Hey, look, get in line, but they didn't. And they were really good about jumping on it. So no, can't say enough good things.

David: Yeah, yeah, Stephen Ken, authorbrites.com. Good people. All right. Well, folks, speaking of which, if you are looking for more information about our good friend, Taylor Moore here, go to Taylor Moore books.com. Just like that. You can also follow him on Twitter and all the other social media channels. Although I guess I got to call it X now. I'm still getting used to that Taylor. So bear with me.

Taylor Moore: I know, me too.

David: But boy has this been good. What a pleasure talking to you.

Taylor Moore: Fun talking to you too, David. It was a good conversation, great questions. In fact, you had a few questions that I'd never had before and I always love to get something new and it makes me think and to me that's a lot of fun.

David: Well, you're definitely a talent to just latch on to for some time to come. I forgot to mention Brad Taylor, our good friends Brad Taylor here on the cover says, a riveting thriller with a family in crisis at the core. And Brad knows something about that. He writes similar books of that quality. But I'll tell you, this is... This has to be in the top 10. Uh, you know, if I keep saying that Taylor, if I keep saying these books from the top 10, my list is going to turn to 30. So I'm going to have to stop. I'm going to have to start saying my top 30.

Taylor Moore: We'll start saying that after we get off, but keep me in the top 10 and then start saying top 30. How about that? Ha ha ha. Ha ha. All right.

David: Fair enough. Once again folks, Taylor Moore, the website is TaylorMooreBooks.com. The book is Ricochet and it drops tomorrow. Yes,

Taylor Moore: Oh, 29th,

David: we're recording

Taylor Moore: yeah.

David: this a few days, yeah,

Taylor Moore: Oh, yeah.

David: we're recording this backwards, but this is going to drop, this show will drop on Monday the 28th and the book drops on Tuesday the 29th.

Taylor Moore: There you go. Yeah,

David: I know that always throws people off. I always

Taylor Moore: I'm like, wait, no.

David: meant to mention that out of the gate. David, I'm not ready for that yet. God bless America. Alright, once again, Taylor, thank you so much for your time. Really appreciate it.

Taylor Moore: Thanks David, thanks for having me on.